Heather Mac Donald and Glenn Loury are fearless and independent thinkers on topics from police brutality to academic freedom. In this dialogue, these renowned non-conformists will interview each other on issues relating to policing and public safety. Mac Donald and Loury have been vocal—and frequently against the current—on anti-police protests, defunding efforts, and claims of systemic racism. These scholars will discuss where they agree and where they differ in their understanding of this critical and divisive moment in America. Mac Donald and Loury will also reflect on how we move toward greater trust, safety, effectiveness, and justice in policing and community safety.